Rare Sands TRK's Controversial? A hoard?

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Radio Silence, Yes this is an old trick. When you can't defend ignore.. For the record that's bad advice.
 
Yes indeed. Those are some of the reasons Cheryl and I stopped buying high end chips and stopped donating to the club. if you begin to lose faith in leadership then you back off
And don't forget about the MOGH. Yes we all want to have a clubhouse, but this demands resources we will never be able to muster, so why not put it out of its misery.
 
Yes indeed. Those are some of the reasons Cheryl and I stopped buying high end chips and stopped donating to the club. if you begin to lose faith in leadership then you back off
Its just a sad situation all around. Sometimes people have to be held accountable. Other leadership folks in the club support him quietly which to me is approval of this behavior and why he doesn't let up with it. Deeming web sites "competition" and social media focuses arent what sinks a club, its leadership like this that does. It's a good thing that the hobby is stronger than any one or a few people. Amazingly I was told recently that if the chip board or the club fails the hobby will die completely. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT AT ALL.

But bad behavior by those deemed leaders will certainly have them going elsewhere for lack of trust. There is only resignation left to save the integrity of that club I fear.
 
Can you just be civilized and truthful? There's a reason you always end up in the same situations. You know why I said don't steal the pictures. Grown men don't do the things you do.

I know you're not used to being held accountable, but lets review:
1) " I am not the ChipGuide on PCF " You PM someone with Identifying information, then you text them on the phone with the same information. You are chip guide on PCF. proven 100% fact. You know exactly what I am talking about here and I will not publicly say who you communicated with but they can feel free to join the convo. But I assure you I have seen and have the empirical evidence showing the truth as I told you when you lied before.

2) You come to PokerChipper, sign up as "JimmyR, James Renner, steal Oscars Picture of the oceanside $5, submit it in the chip guide as James Renner, you manipulate the data so that it doesn't show up as a new entry in peoples' notifications., you're asked how the picture got submitted and you get uppity and say you will investigate. You make a production at chip board that you investigated and the picture was removed. Did you investigate yourself? Did you scold yourself like you do to others when they post a picture from the chip guide without cite? (which I'm good with the polite request as you know)

3) The "JimmyR" account, which stated a location of Boston MA. was then banned for dishonesty, false identity, and swiping images without consent. The account signed up and on with an IP address of 67.80.45.214, then later, you sign up with your real name Charles Kaplan from the very same IP address. The PokerChipper security software threw a warning that your request was flagged for having the same IP address as JimmyR's banned account. I emailed you to your MOGH admin email to alert you of the flag and ask if you recognized the email used to sign up at Chipper, we have may security features in place to protect our users privacy and identity, you confirmed that it was indeed your personal email and was you signing up.

As we know how IP addresses work, they are registered specifically to the device used to sign in with ie. cell phone, laptop, PC Mac etc, and not form the ISP, or server, no 2 people can be on the internet with the same IP address, I knew you were being dishonest, I conferred with the PC.C board, and with some reluctance approved your request to join thinking that maybe you'd behave differently in our web community than in the past at other sites but here you are with the same confrontational attitude and playing some kind of victim. and try to show PokerChipper in some bad light saying that you thought this was a place to unite sets and singles folks. Well its been going fine here between the two communities. I can only surmise that you and a few others continue to try and poison the relationship between the two and I dont get why.

I explained to you at Chip Board in very certain terms that if you were dishonest in the future I would be there to hold you to account. You are on boards and in positions with the Guide, the club, the MOGH, wherever else which, as you state are owned and operated separately. Honestly most people don't know the difference as they are operated under an umbrella that connects them all by appearance. I would think that there is some code of conduct in place that addresses honesty, integrity and behavior detrimental to the hobby and the club etc. and yet you continue to behave badly. I gave you every benefit of being a good steward of the hobby etc. including joining this site, knowing you appear to be a less than honest person.

I am not going to ban your account, I think you could use this as a way to reflect and be a better steward of the hobby and all the other entities you represent going forward. I personally believe in the mission of the guide overall, my points are validated by many, sets and singles alike regarding honesty and accountability in the guide issues on pictures, use of pictures, hoard alerts placed on chips affecting values, etc. but am very uncomfortable knowing that you are involved in an administrative position given the chronic poor behavior you show.

As usual I'm sure this is where you will storm off like a victim and go radio silent, it's what you do, wait till you think it's forgotten or so far down the "tree" that no one knows, until the next time. wash, rinse, repeat. Many have reached out on different platforms and expressed concerns regarding your behavior, some even not wanting to voice it publicly so as to not have their account shut down at the guide in retribution, but I'm here to let you know, it's not just me, or the sets people Charles, it's a lot of folks, who, and rightfully so put up with you because in the end it's a hobby of collecting clay discs. With almost no exceptions I wouldn't do this publicly because the "power" I or regular people have is the same as any other person, none, except that you sir are in a position in the definitive organizations of the hobby, organizations that deal with things of real value,rare chip donations to MOGH etc, I've seen a few prominent members ask where donated chips go... is there inventory? Are the chips in a hot storage container? Are any of them in your ar anyone else's personal collections? Do you handle funds related to the MOGH? The Chip Guide? The CCA? All good questions when you have shown yourself to be less than honest and upright sir.

I believe you to be a security concern with the behavior you exhibit, claiming ownership of images and demanding cites etc. all while you yourself are taking images from several places and people and improperly publishing them under assumed identities. Is there a real James Renner? Have you stolen his identity? does he know you operate under his name? You realize identity theft is a crime right?

As in the past, I again call for your resignation from responsible positions in the CCA or affiliated entities as I simply don't believe you to be trustworthy or responsible or a good steward of the chipping hobby and these further incidences show that. I was asked in the past to file any complaint I had regarding you privately with the club and to not publicly "Shame" you. Public shaming is not this intention, rather it is of like a hoard warning to anyone involved in the hobby regarding dealing with you only I provide the evidence. A public apology for being dishonest while calling others dishonest would have sufficed in our chip board or PCF interactions, you know, own our mistakes? But you have no remorse for your behavior and should be removed from any leadership positions regardless of any good you've done for the club, guide, MOGH etc. because you simply, IMO, be trusted. You control data sources that affect real value of real collectors which can be manipulated to influence selling prices or to induce people to sell, would you then buy from them? These are all very obvious questions and they're being asked by more and more people including the ones who read threads like these and worry silently, or refuse to donate money or goods, or leave the hobby all together seeing the activities of leadership.

While we feel that chip collecting is a major hobby, its really a spec of dust in the world important to us folks who get enjoyment from it. But as an organization that carries a balance sheet with hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash and expenses I'd hate to think that you had any access to admin levels. Figure this out Charles, be a good person. Attached is the evidence I reference to any PC.C accounts, as for PCF, I don't speak to that, as I'm no longer a member there but you know exactly what went on there.

I wish you the best sir, but be responsible and honest.

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Yikes - this is hard to believe- but so disheartening
 
Can you just be civilized and truthful? There's a reason you always end up in the same situations. You know why I said don't steal the pictures. Grown men don't do the things you do.

I know you're not used to being held accountable, but lets review:
1) " I am not the ChipGuide on PCF " You PM someone with Identifying information, then you text them on the phone with the same information. You are chip guide on PCF. proven 100% fact. You know exactly what I am talking about here and I will not publicly say who you communicated with but they can feel free to join the convo. But I assure you I have seen and have the empirical evidence showing the truth as I told you when you lied before.

2) You come to PokerChipper, sign up as "JimmyR, James Renner, steal Oscars Picture of the oceanside $5, submit it in the chip guide as James Renner, you manipulate the data so that it doesn't show up as a new entry in peoples' notifications., you're asked how the picture got submitted and you get uppity and say you will investigate. You make a production at chip board that you investigated and the picture was removed. Did you investigate yourself? Did you scold yourself like you do to others when they post a picture from the chip guide without cite? (which I'm good with the polite request as you know)

3) The "JimmyR" account, which stated a location of Boston MA. was then banned for dishonesty, false identity, and swiping images without consent. The account signed up and on with an IP address of 67.80.45.214, then later, you sign up with your real name Charles Kaplan from the very same IP address. The PokerChipper security software threw a warning that your request was flagged for having the same IP address as JimmyR's banned account. I emailed you to your MOGH admin email to alert you of the flag and ask if you recognized the email used to sign up at Chipper, we have may security features in place to protect our users privacy and identity, you confirmed that it was indeed your personal email and was you signing up.

As we know how IP addresses work, they are registered specifically to the device used to sign in with ie. cell phone, laptop, PC Mac etc, and not form the ISP, or server, no 2 people can be on the internet with the same IP address, I knew you were being dishonest, I conferred with the PC.C board, and with some reluctance approved your request to join thinking that maybe you'd behave differently in our web community than in the past at other sites but here you are with the same confrontational attitude and playing some kind of victim. and try to show PokerChipper in some bad light saying that you thought this was a place to unite sets and singles folks. Well its been going fine here between the two communities. I can only surmise that you and a few others continue to try and poison the relationship between the two and I dont get why.

I explained to you at Chip Board in very certain terms that if you were dishonest in the future I would be there to hold you to account. You are on boards and in positions with the Guide, the club, the MOGH, wherever else which, as you state are owned and operated separately. Honestly most people don't know the difference as they are operated under an umbrella that connects them all by appearance. I would think that there is some code of conduct in place that addresses honesty, integrity and behavior detrimental to the hobby and the club etc. and yet you continue to behave badly. I gave you every benefit of being a good steward of the hobby etc. including joining this site, knowing you appear to be a less than honest person.

I am not going to ban your account, I think you could use this as a way to reflect and be a better steward of the hobby and all the other entities you represent going forward. I personally believe in the mission of the guide overall, my points are validated by many, sets and singles alike regarding honesty and accountability in the guide issues on pictures, use of pictures, hoard alerts placed on chips affecting values, etc. but am very uncomfortable knowing that you are involved in an administrative position given the chronic poor behavior you show.

As usual I'm sure this is where you will storm off like a victim and go radio silent, it's what you do, wait till you think it's forgotten or so far down the "tree" that no one knows, until the next time. wash, rinse, repeat. Many have reached out on different platforms and expressed concerns regarding your behavior, some even not wanting to voice it publicly so as to not have their account shut down at the guide in retribution, but I'm here to let you know, it's not just me, or the sets people Charles, it's a lot of folks, who, and rightfully so put up with you because in the end it's a hobby of collecting clay discs. With almost no exceptions I wouldn't do this publicly because the "power" I or regular people have is the same as any other person, none, except that you sir are in a position in the definitive organizations of the hobby, organizations that deal with things of real value,rare chip donations to MOGH etc, I've seen a few prominent members ask where donated chips go... is there inventory? Are the chips in a hot storage container? Are any of them in your ar anyone else's personal collections? Do you handle funds related to the MOGH? The Chip Guide? The CCA? All good questions when you have shown yourself to be less than honest and upright sir.

I believe you to be a security concern with the behavior you exhibit, claiming ownership of images and demanding cites etc. all while you yourself are taking images from several places and people and improperly publishing them under assumed identities. Is there a real James Renner? Have you stolen his identity? does he know you operate under his name? You realize identity theft is a crime right?

As in the past, I again call for your resignation from responsible positions in the CCA or affiliated entities as I simply don't believe you to be trustworthy or responsible or a good steward of the chipping hobby and these further incidences show that. I was asked in the past to file any complaint I had regarding you privately with the club and to not publicly "Shame" you. Public shaming is not this intention, rather it is of like a hoard warning to anyone involved in the hobby regarding dealing with you only I provide the evidence. A public apology for being dishonest while calling others dishonest would have sufficed in our chip board or PCF interactions, you know, own our mistakes? But you have no remorse for your behavior and should be removed from any leadership positions regardless of any good you've done for the club, guide, MOGH etc. because you simply, IMO, be trusted. You control data sources that affect real value of real collectors which can be manipulated to influence selling prices or to induce people to sell, would you then buy from them? These are all very obvious questions and they're being asked by more and more people including the ones who read threads like these and worry silently, or refuse to donate money or goods, or leave the hobby all together seeing the activities of leadership.

While we feel that chip collecting is a major hobby, its really a spec of dust in the world important to us folks who get enjoyment from it. But as an organization that carries a balance sheet with hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash and expenses I'd hate to think that you had any access to admin levels. Figure this out Charles, be a good person. Attached is the evidence I reference to any PC.C accounts, as for PCF, I don't speak to that, as I'm no longer a member there but you know exactly what went on there.

I wish you the best sir, but be responsible and honest.

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It's a shame you cant hold a civilized conversation..........
 
"remember don't steal any pictures..." - I thought that this website was a place to bring set and singles collectors together. All I am seeing here is the same rhetoric as you will find on PCF. It is so sad. Good bye.
 
Why are you switching subjects? The comment I made was about TCR, not the ChipGuide. They are totally independent. TCR is a published price guide, the ChipGuide is an online catalog of casino collectibles. We cooperate with each other, but we are each owned and operated separately.

But, in response to your reply - Why do you think that mention of a quantity of chips for sale on eBay is "totally unsubstantiated and unscientific and used with absolutely no integrity or evidence what so ever." ?
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To the average person, and if you look at the posts on the chip board and how every site is referred to as "Ours" by posters, They all appear to be property of either the CCA or David Spragg...... or both...... Now if anyone's changing the subject its you using some kind of technicality of ownership. Theyre all connected and controlled by the same folks, which is fine, but indeed the fact. I wish you would just take some good advice once and a while, however it seems unlikely......

Enjoy the board, remember don't steal any pictures.....
 
I am not criticizing a "few imperfections" , I actually said I don't disagree with the hoard alert in general, Its great for pricing for set collectors as @AfterTheFact mentions, What I am admonishing, not criticizing, is the method used being that it is Provide the hoard alerts, I applaud that, do it evenly and across the board. and PROVIDE THE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE IN THE ENTRY that supports the report. Not just a one liner, he said she said there's a hoard found, or, here's a picture of sands chips, hoard alert, that compiled with the writers of the price guide, the chip rack, that says the chips are fake and don't exist! They're digital images not real chips. This from Sarles himself posted to the chip board. I'd think twice before putting some kind of hoard alert unless its a hoard of digital images of chips that don't exist as per the co author of many "respected books and guides"..

That almost skates the fine line of Slander and tarnishes the reputation of one of the biggest chip collectors in the hobby with many rare chips in his collection. Now lets say Krish wants to sell some chips, and because of statements to the effect that he's a liar by the respected professionals in the hobby he has a difficult time selling because someone decided to randomly sully his reputation? At what point do these guides and experts start to act professionally, responsibly and transparently and not expose themselves to defamation suits all while loosing a bit of respect and dignity along the way. Eroding their own reputation along the way.

All the respect you earn Charles for all the hard work you do for chip guide, or at least that's what they say, diminishes each time you choose to die on the hill of common sense. I love the Chip guide and most of its contents but man I have to take it a little less seriously each time you fight these ridiculous fights. If you want to say there's a hoard be RESPONSIBLE AND PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE WITH YOUR CLAIM before you make statements devaluing the communities collections with NO EVIDENCE!

I know you don't understand or believe me when I say every time we interact that I'm trying to make you better, make the guide TRUSTED and respected, I know you think I'm attacking your character but it all starts with HONESTY and RESPECT. DO THE RIGHT THING, the actual right thing not the thing Charles dictates is right. Make a legacy dude and not be the laughing stock behind it all. I assume in person with out the armor of the keyboard you are a nice fellow, but as my mother always said, Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking.
Why are you switching subjects? The comment I made was about TCR, not the ChipGuide. They are totally independent. TCR is a published price guide, the ChipGuide is an online catalog of casino collectibles. We cooperate with each other, but we are each owned and operated separately.

But, in response to your reply - Why do you think that mention of a quantity of chips for sale on eBay is "totally unsubstantiated and unscientific and used with absolutely no integrity or evidence what so ever." ?
 
The Chip Rack is a price guide. There is a disclaimer in the TCR about how they determine value. TCR does not set prices, it rather tracks and provides prices from previous transactions. But it is only a guide. What a chip is worth is dependent on what a seller and buyer negotiate on a particular day. TCR is the standard for collectors of Nevada chips, providing a wealth of information about chips, casinos and values. It is not perfect and can never be perfect because we are always getting new information. Instead of criticizing the few imperfections, you should be praising what an amazing contribution TCR has made to the hobby.
I am not criticizing a "few imperfections" , I actually said I don't disagree with the hoard alert in general, Its great for pricing for set collectors as @AfterTheFact mentions, What I am admonishing, not criticizing, is the method used being that it is totally unsubstantiated and unscientific and used with absolutely no integrity or evidence what so ever. Provide the hoard alerts, I applaud that, do it evenly and across the board. and PROVIDE THE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE IN THE ENTRY that supports the report. Not just a one liner, he said she said there's a hoard found, or, here's a picture of sands chips, hoard alert, that compiled with the writers of the price guide, the chip rack, that says the chips are fake and don't exist! They're digital images not real chips. This from Sarles himself posted to the chip board. I'd think twice before putting some kind of hoard alert unless its a hoard of digital images of chips that don't exist as per the co author of many "respected books and guides"..

That almost skates the fine line of Slander and tarnishes the reputation of one of the biggest chip collectors in the hobby with many rare chips in his collection. Now lets say Krish wants to sell some chips, and because of statements to the effect that he's a liar by the respected professionals in the hobby he has a difficult time selling because someone decided to randomly sully his reputation? At what point do these guides and experts start to act professionally, responsibly and transparently and not expose themselves to defamation suits all while loosing a bit of respect and dignity along the way. Eroding their own reputation along the way.

All the respect you earn Charles for all the hard work you do for chip guide, or at least that's what they say, diminishes each time you choose to die on the hill of common sense. I love the Chip guide and most of its contents but man I have to take it a little less seriously each time you fight these ridiculous fights. If you want to say there's a hoard be RESPONSIBLE AND PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE WITH YOUR CLAIM before you make statements devaluing the communities collections with NO EVIDENCE!

I know you don't understand or believe me when I say every time we interact that I'm trying to make you better, make the guide TRUSTED and respected, I know you think I'm attacking your character but it all starts with HONESTY and RESPECT. DO THE RIGHT THING, the actual right thing not the thing Charles dictates is right. Make a legacy dude and not be the laughing stock behind it all. I assume in person with out the armor of the keyboard you are a nice fellow, but as my mother always said, Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking.
 
Personally, I feel if someone were to take the time to go through all the forums where playable sets are listed, then list them all as a Hoards in the major guides, the dealers would be pissed. Many of the chips purported to be rare really have racks out there. Many dealers have racks of chips they sell, it’s just they don’t release but one or two a year to make the number seem low. Everybody knows that.
 
The Chip Rack is a price guide. There is a disclaimer in the TCR about how they determine value. TCR does not set prices, it rather tracks and provides prices from previous transactions. But it is only a guide. What a chip is worth is dependent on what a seller and buyer negotiate on a particular day. TCR is the standard for collectors of Nevada chips, providing a wealth of information about chips, casinos and values. It is not perfect and can never be perfect because we are always getting new information. Instead of criticizing the few imperfections, you should be praising what an amazing contribution TCR has made to the hobby.
 

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I read a bit at the CB regarding these Sands Chips on the Scrown Mold and the fact that Krish found a sizeable amount of them. Indeed not the first convo about these chips. Some folks say they are purely digital creations, that there is discrepancies in the images, that there's no way they are real, that he is only trying to project his status in the hobby, and on and on and on.... I have had many transactions with him, both on the buy and on the sell side, Krish has always been a good and reliable buyer/seller.

While I believe that many of the naysayers are simply jealous, I have no reason to believe that Krish has either the time nor the desire to "fabricate" the images of which there are many now, to simply bolster his "status" in the hobby. After all he has thousands of rare chips in his collection of sets, he has stated that he doesn't care for singles. This debate continues to surface for whatever reason but I thought I'd comment on the fact that this comes back to the subject of these hoard alerts that keep being posted on the ChipGuide. The thing I keep hearing is that there is a great backlog of submissions to get to on the guide and I see these hoard alerts being posted. Not only posted but posted without any evidence or reliable cite of where the information comes from.

If the chip guide is to be taken seriously, this MUST BE DONE. You cannot take random statements from submissions, some of which are anonymous, and post them as fact in the guide without supporting data and absolute proof if you want to be considered credible and a valid resource! I further believe that these unsubstantiated hoard claims are shooting the guide and the hobby in the foot as each time its done hundreds of collections instantly change in value. I saw that someone said that the Sands TRK find doesn't affect the value of the chips because the collector will never sell them, really? That's how you put value on them? I disagree as every time I've had a find of a rare chip, in quantities of less than Krishes find, I'm told by buyers that now they wont pay more as there is more available. You can't have it both ways. either they're less valuable because there's more or they're unaffected because you assume the owner will "never sell". In the end, they exist, right?

aside from the theories regarding value, it seems to me, this issue regarding value is purely subjective. If I own a rack of chips that there is known to be only 500 of, and they're 60 years old, if you want one there's only one outlet, arguing that the value is less now that one has a rack or so is wrong because your talking from both sides of the mouth. Your chip A used to be a Z1 but now that you have a rack or so they're now an M! really? who says so? The chip rack? (a whole other discussion to be had) You say so? In the end the person possessing the chip controls the value in what he or she would accept from a potential buyer.

Buyer: Well theres a hoard alert on these so while I would have given you $1000 yesterday, I will now only give you $300.

Seller: Well ok, I wont take $300 so have a nice day, thanks for looking.

Buyer: But the chip Guide says......... The Chip rack says....... Blah Blah Blah.....

Seller: Thanks for the information, I'm not selling for $300, bye bye.

In the end because the buyer is relying on unsubstantiated information from the chip guide, and the chip rack has stated the value of the chip, also based on information from the chip guide is now less, the buyer must go without the chip or find a different outlet for the chip. which he/she won't.

So which is it? There's more known so they're worth less? or the value stays the same depending on who you are?
 
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