Secrecy in chipping? Or is it just life?

The Chip Spa

Dan Madrigrano
Forum Admin
Moderator
Nov 4, 2022
1,469
4,511
Wisconsin
pokerchipper.com
Hypocrisy is never a good trait but is one that has many perceived “levels” some frowned on. Some accepted.

One area I see in in chip discoveries and production of some is that in this hobby the amount of chips available for a certain casino or fantasy set is known or estimated based on factors. When the amount of available items is not known value fluctuates as items are discovered.

In coins say, the gold (SA) Krugerrand is known to be 59 million plus. The Canadian maple leaf is around 39 million. And in chipping you can find things like the production cards from TRK and know how many were made. However there has been a niche in chipping known as the NAGB, there’s a thread here for that too, where the production amounts have been or attempted to be very secretive. I can only assume to confuse the value of those chips. Some nagb command a price higher that a 40 year old casino chip in mint condition. In any collectible item the finite amount of the item plays an important role in the value of the item but in chipping it’s different. Some accept the fact that what they ask and receive is the value. Some raise Cain when you sell them a rack of chips and later roast you for selling more of them telling you that if they had known there were many more they would have never paid that much.

I’m just wondering here, is there instances where if more are discovered the price goes down and other areas where the price is the price even if there’s a chance that 10,000 of them could later be discovered. Would the price be affected in a chip if it were discovered that the producer held back thousands of chips in the collection to reveal later??

Been at this for a while and it would seem chip value is the area of the hobby that everyone has a different theory. There’s nowhere to go to find the value of chips that is definitive.

What would be the most important reason to you, if you produced an item line to keep the amount of items produced a secret?


How do you estimate value before buying??
 
  • Like
Reactions: STuDioSuRFiNG
How do you estimate value before buying??
I've always thought about buying chips in multiple different ways, but I tend to always think about what I've seen before or what I know is out there. I've seen a lot of chips in the few years that I've been in this hobby. So, with that knowledge I'm able to focus in on buys to really know whether it's worth it or not. Let's say I've seen 8-10 racks of something. That doesn't mean I'm going to be buying chips at $35+ per chip unless I really know it's worth it and it's the only one I've seen in quite some time. That would mean buying them every few months or so if I was really dedicated to that project.

If there are chips that I've only ever seen a handful of I'll be willing to drop more on them. A good example is the Sneak Joint $1 that I was able to find at the antique mall here in Vegas. I had never seen one in person, the only one or two I had seen were online via the ChipGuide, an auction or a sold listing from years ago. When I saw $125 for the chip it was an instant buy without a doubt. Knowing that it's worth more than that doesn't really matter to me, just having it in my collection is all that I wanted because it's a chip that I had been looking for before I bought it. I saw one at the Casinorama show for I think $1000? If I can sell it someday for even $500 or so I'd be happy!

I understand the meaning or the thinking of not telling everyone everything, but I do think when dealing with others that there needs to be transparency and honesty. This especially when trying to help other figure out if they got a good deal or not. I'd hate to know that someone spent X amount for a chip above market value and me knowing that there are racks of that chip out there. Now, there's always the case where if the chips are locked away they aren't for sale right? Right. Meaning that the supply is low, possibly the price goes up at that point.

I always go with my gut feeling. If it's not a good deal I'm not grabbing it, if I know it's an amazing deal I don't second guess it.
 
Upvote 0
Lots of examples of chip finds where the price just craters...the AC playboys dropped from hundreds to about $5 each. And nobody has to say how many they have found. One dealer on ebay, when a former several hundred dollar chip was being sold by him (I guessed it was a him) in the $25 price range, individually over several months, responded that he had found "a few", when I asked a question. Meanwhile his pic showed at least one full rack in the background.
 
Upvote 0
I've always thought about buying chips in multiple different ways, but I tend to always think about what I've seen before or what I know is out there. I've seen a lot of chips in the few years that I've been in this hobby. So, with that knowledge I'm able to focus in on buys to really know whether it's worth it or not. Let's say I've seen 8-10 racks of something. That doesn't mean I'm going to be buying chips at $35+ per chip unless I really know it's worth it and it's the only one I've seen in quite some time. That would mean buying them every few months or so if I was really dedicated to that project.

If there are chips that I've only ever seen a handful of I'll be willing to drop more on them. A good example is the Sneak Joint $1 that I was able to find at the antique mall here in Vegas. I had never seen one in person, the only one or two I had seen were online via the ChipGuide, an auction or a sold listing from years ago. When I saw $125 for the chip it was an instant buy without a doubt. Knowing that it's worth more than that doesn't really matter to me, just having it in my collection is all that I wanted because it's a chip that I had been looking for before I bought it. I saw one at the Casinorama show for I think $1000? If I can sell it someday for even $500 or so I'd be happy!

I understand the meaning or the thinking of not telling everyone everything, but I do think when dealing with others that there needs to be transparency and honesty. This especially when trying to help other figure out if they got a good deal or not. I'd hate to know that someone spent X amount for a chip above market value and me knowing that there are racks of that chip out there. Now, there's always the case where if the chips are locked away they aren't for sale right? Right. Meaning that the supply is low, possibly the price goes up at that point.

I always go with my gut feeling. If it's not a good deal I'm not grabbing it, if I know it's an amazing deal I don't second guess it.
I suppose there is a tree or sliding scale of sorts and many ways to think about it....


~~~~~~Comodity Chips Not rare~~~~~~~~~~NAGB~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~REAL CASINO CHIPS~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!~~FANTASY CHIPS~~~~~~~~~~~~ALL OTHERS
~~~~~~~~~Quantity, looks etc~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Unknown~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~rarity, Condition, availability~~~~~~~~same as Real~~~~~~~~~~~~sliding scale

So on so on........ I give the NAGB chips its own category due the the complex level of secrecy and conjecture that surrounds them and the vast methods people use to value them.

The rest all share a lot of common factors I guess.. with some separate nuances....

But you're right there's too many schools of thought on it! I know there are a few books or "Guides" if you will, but it seems they're all written by the same guys! Its not like there's a Kelly Blue Book of chips or an individual or appraiser of sort with no connection to the hobby or somehow no conflict. I believe that @Leo822 has a reasonable take on the books and value guides that I agree with.
 
Upvote 0
I suppose there is a tree or sliding scale of sorts and many ways to think about it....


~~~~~~Comodity Chips Not rare~~~~~~~~~~NAGB~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~REAL CASINO CHIPS~~~~~~~~~~!!!!!~~FANTASY CHIPS~~~~~~~~~~~~ALL OTHERS
~~~~~~~~~Quantity, looks etc~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Unknown~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~rarity, Condition, availability~~~~~~~~same as Real~~~~~~~~~~~~sliding scale

So on so on........ I give the NAGB chips its own category due the the complex level of secrecy and conjecture that surrounds them and the vast methods people use to value them.

The rest all share a lot of common factors I guess.. with some separate nuances....

But you're right there's too many schools of thought on it! I know there are a few books or "Guides" if you will, but it seems they're all written by the same guys! Its not like there's a Kelly Blue Book of chips or an individual or appraiser of sort with no connection to the hobby or somehow no conflict. I believe that @Leo822 has a reasonable take on the books and value guides that I agree with.
What would you call commodity chips...say all of those chipcos that came from washington state that were The chiproom sales for $30 a rack? Or do you mean slugged WSOP chips that come in a "real leather" case.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: The Chip Spa
Upvote 0
What would you call commodity chips...say all of those chipcos that came from washington state that were The chiproom sales for $30 a rack? Or do you mean slugged WSOP chips that come in a "real leather" case.
I'd call "Comodity Chips any chips from Chip Room Sales..... Card Rooms.... closed casinos where there's 1000's available at a shot....... I'd classify the NAGB's but they get their own class in my mind as the are different only because of their "perceived Value", I consider them an anomaly as their value is not based on quantity available the value is "controlled" by stories. Lets use the 8V $4 Elsinores as 1 example, better than a lot of NAGB's, (no not just tigers) a great chip, but 400 a rack, why, because they were in a chip room sale.

The elsinore chips before the TCR Sale were ding as much as $20 a chip as singles...... If you look at the NAGB's when they hit eBay, they sit. Tommys Tiger sample sets sold as they were labeled as "all proceeds to charity". ie.

1681594047860.png
A great price compared to NAGB's
1681594151061.png
Months Old
1681594206256.png
Months Old

1681594368029.png
Months and Months old....... (when they were all hyped up and fresh these were called unobtanium also)
1681594466133.png
Sitting...... Months........
1681594604670.png
These were so hot when the flavor of the day...... 5-7 a chip now sitting at $3.12/Chip and sitting
1681594766471.png
$32.50/ Chip Sitting when just a while back Unobtanium, now this one I get, Jim said how many were available, not that many. But sitting none the less...

So the market does correct and sellers can decide to keep em till, if ever they get their asking price but I remember when the Tri Moon boat chip $1's were commanding 6-9 a chip and when I saw them at $350 I bought some "mint unfelted" ones I thought would fit in a set but sold them off at cost because I decided, nope....... So I guess my point in saying NAGB are unique is what I call the flavor of the day, what's hot and the sellers hype up are yesterday's news when the next flashy shiny object comes out. Where as Real Chips from real historical casinos seem to hold value or increase, Indiana chips, NAGB's, Ohio Commodities only decrease in value...... So I say buy em up, I'll buy em later if I like em when you try and off load em! But that's just me. I can wait. In perspective, Ill wait for the iPhone 15 to come out before I buy what was the iPhone 14@ $1200 for $499. Another ie. I have the Felix's bank club chips, in mint condition, were going for 5-700 a chip, the $5 alone was known factually that there was only 1500 (I think) made, as soon as it was known that I had close to a rack the value went down, or I should say the price people were willing to pay went down because now they knew there was a rack! David Spragg even changed the value in his book of the chip from Z1 to M! and ol Chip Guide for the first time we ever saw, and haven't done it since, put a "HOARD ALERT" on them in the guide. Many hoards found since and no hoard alerts...... Sketchy. But guess what..... do you want a felix's Bank Club Chip in uncirculated condition? GREAT! wait for one to show up for $300....... you'll be waiting

Maybe this sheds a bit of light on my perception of value, maybe not...... in a couple years it'll be the mint Tiger chips sitting on eBay not selling Like the Mint condition Aurora Stars that, were preserved and never played for 5 or 6 years. Shame such a nice set never got played! Why not? oh They'll be worth even more in a few years. that's why I get a little peeved when I see people scrambling to free up cash by selling great chips at a loss or hitting the credit cards on chips that will only loose value and not even be played.

They aint poker chips if you don't play poker with them!! Look at Krish 5 or 600 thousand chips overpaid for sitting in cabinets..... I wonder if he looks at them all and admires them..... I hope so.

Anyway I agree with the point that people can ask whatever they want for chips and hope they get it or do get it before the next shiny object gets em! but it seems a bit unorthodox to many other hobbies. in how we value the objects.
 
Upvote 0
Pretty good stuff here. The "HOARD ALERT" that Chipguide listed against Danny is absolutely targeting those they are not in agreement with or feel they have been ripped off by. Basically...they are weaponizing Chipguide against the very people they ask to donate their time and pictures. I'm glad people like Danny, Oscar and Joe have joined me in realizing that yes in "our world" these people and entities hold some power, but at the end of the day WE ARE ALL just a bunch of chip nerds enjoying a hobby of collecting pieces of clay. No reason to fear ANYONE by speaking out against improprieties in the hobby.
 
Upvote 0
Haha
Tell the Sands LNL story Danny XD
Meh. I’m over it. I own the beauties and coupled with the Eddie’s beings the price down to just below palatable. Some agree some don’t but in the end the seller (owner) of the chips won’t or simply cannot get the hoard of chips he has sold on his own. The racks are elevated I’m price due to the commission paid to the middle man and the fees at eBay but in the end I bought em, if it was just that rack I don’t think I would have pulled that trigger. Together it made some weird chipping addiction sense to me. Ugh.

I’d have to think a private sale direct from the buyer and no middle man would have been $1000 less. Or about that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: STuDioSuRFiNG
Upvote 0
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 180 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.